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Geoff Livingston

I think a gutsy and accurate portrayal. You did a much better job stating this than Rubel did (we're all monkeys, post).

The truth is the more of these profiles we create, the harder it is to maintain our jobs. As you say, they become a distraction from the real things that matter, relationships. But because our entire networks move in these ways it's hard to resist the pull. I'm in the process of eliminating networks that are non-essential or are not fun.

Rebecca Thorman

I agree as well. I've long wondered if online relationships are built of straw. The more work you put into something, the better the result. And my attention span is short, but I don't think these new tools like twitter are going to replace blogging. Ultimately people want to learn and blogging allows both the author and the reader to benefit in that respect.

Valeria Maltoni

Geoff -- we become enamored with the tools and we forget to ask ourselves the bigger questions... I agree it's hard to resist the pull. I would be interested in learning how you are evaluating what is non essential to you. Do you have criteria? Would you like to share those?

Rebecca -- as I said in my personal welcome note to you, you exude energy and freshness at your site. And you seem to be from the generation that was more native to these environments, certainly more than I ;-) Would you be comfortable telling us how you use Twitter and Facebook? Are they just social pinging tools, for example? Do they fit into the bigger picture of how you envision doing business?

Geoff Livingston

Yes, actually, I am in the process of eliminating some of the less effective tools out there (post coming this weekend on which ones and why). In particular, I am using Google Analytics to track which sites/networks are driving traffic to me. Proof's in the pudding, and I can tell which networks value my contribution by who's visiting.

I also polled my readers to find out which ones they found most effective. Unfortunately, one of the networks sent out a message across their bulleting board to vote, so the results were compromised. Also to be included in this weekend's blog. I'll be sure to reference this discussion in the post, too.

GL

Jan

Bravo.

I agree on practically everything. Although I cannot claim to be an expert I don't get it why Social Media should be so great. It takes no more than the faintest connection between two people for something to be social.

What I care about is what can be done to make stronger connections and not least what we do with those connections...

The most essential parts of social systems are communication and meaning and I would rather have great communication about things meaning something with people I care about than just more information.

Lewis Green

Valeria,

First, I apologize for not visiting this week. You don't want to know.

Second, I agree completely. Geez, we're talking about tools here folks. Do we want to develop our business or make nice? If we want to do the former, let's forget about primarily focusing on tools and instead focus on strategies that work. Get out of the office and stop marketing to folks who are doing the same thing social profilers are--filling out profiles on social media sites. How many of the people spending their time on social media sites are future clients?

Focusing on these social media sites--and, yes, I am on one, LinkedIn, is not a primary tactic for growing our businesses. It is a good way to meet others and to build a reserve of those we can get help from and maybe a referral or two. But anyone who fills out these profiles and then sits around waiting for the phone to ring will surely be out of business soon.

Great post Valeria, and you can tell from the tone of my voice that this is a subject that really pushes my buttons.

Valeria Maltoni

Geoff -- I like the fact that you are putting metrics around what you do. To be fair, some things we do for the fun of it; and that is fine. If what we do needs to generate business eventually (and I suspect that many need to pay bills at some point), then knowing that is a good start. Please do track back to this post as I'm sure everyone is interested in your reasoning.

Jan -- You hit on a crucial point: things meaning something. What have you found helps you with launching deeper connections aside from face to face? In Europe we are much more keen on 'in person' socials...

Lewis -- I got your updates on the server problems. Glad things got resolved. You are passionate about being close to customers. We should all be. We should endeavor to answer your question: "How many of the people spending their time on social media sites are future clients?"

Geoff Livingston

Here it is. Thanks for the great post, which is given a hat tip in the piece: http://www.livingstonbuzz.com/blog/2007/07/20/pownce-versus-twitter-and-the-loser-is-myragan/

Mark Goren

Blogs, Facebook, Twitter, name it. The truth is, Valeria, what you get out of the social network you participate in – and, yes, blogs are one – is what you put in.

I'm a big Facebook fan. Why? Because it's allowed me to reconnect with a lot of people I've lost touch with – and reconnect in a very real way. (Same as through my blog, which has helped me meet great people like you and connect with them in very real ways).

I've had lunch with, spoken on the phone to and just generally have regained friends through Facebook. Now, I do admit, you'll probably accumulate "friends" you can live quite comfortably without, but that, to me, is not the point. It's what you do with the relationships you want to build that makes all the difference.

And I've done so through my blog, Twitter and Facebook to varying degrees. As I said earlier, you get out what you put in.

Valeria Maltoni

Mark:

I used to think the same way. After 7 years of moderating discussions and creating events and experiences for a listserv (with extreme availability to help and connect) I realized that there comes a time of diminishing returns on involvement. A time when people just move on because of the next fad, regardless of the time invested.

So, my take is your best bet is in spending time with some, not all and not necessarily the like-mined ones.

Anna Farmery

As normal Valeria a thoughtful post, I had discussed on my blog (http://theengagingbrand.typepad.com/the_engaging_brand_/2007/07/web-30---puttin.html

My feeling is that people are using the tools as if the connection is a friendship - for me facebook etc is a connection tool, which can then be used to develop the human relationship. I have asked David Phillips - a relationship management expert to come on my podcast to discuss it further. As you know I love Web 2.0, but not as a replacement to my real world or relationships but as an enhancement to it.

Jan

Valeria,

You just cannot expect deep meaning from shallow media. At least I have seen no example of that yet.

Generally would I say that the more of yourself you give the more you get in return. The most revealing is as you say face to face as nothing communicates better or on more levels than that.

When working in media that doesn't allow this you have to make the most of what you have at your disposal and know when to give it up and move to another media to develop the relationship further.

Social Media sites can surely be used to meet new people, but not to get to know someone (if you appreciate the difference). For that to happen you have to change platforms or at least combine it with other media.

Keeping track of people is also something you can use these sites for, but again if you think you can recreate the spark using them I think you will be disappointed.

Hence is my first priority my blog where I don't reveal much personal information, but still reveal a heck of a lot about who I am and how I think. Getting to know me online is thus best done by reading what I write and wrote regardless in which media we first met.

Valeria Maltoni

Anna:

That is a brilliant take and a thoughtful post. If I borrowed Mark Goren's expression, I would say: 'Wish I Said That'. Maybe you saw my Ask(?)Away conversation with Director Tom this week. We talked about using video of real people...

We're making the same point in the end. Don't expect the tool to make it happen for you. A tool will not give you a personality... nor will it give you relationships.

Valeria Maltoni

Jan:

You make another interesting point. It is not by revealing more personal information that we get to know each other. It is by paying attention to what comes through about us and staying in the conversation via as many media as possible -- in person being the best.

Do you think that the 'addiction' that some experience to blogs (and some of these tools) is due to an increased inability to be alone with our thoughts and emotions? Anna puts this forth in her post (linked at her comment).

Rebecca Thorman

I'm loving how you do actually create a conversation on here- fabulous!

I think Facebook and other tools are very social, but for me, it's more about showcasing the connections I have versus cultivating a deeper connection. I love Jan's comment and subsequent comments, about bringing more meaning to our connections though. No one tool can do that, but rather a combination and a heck of a lot of work and time. Those using tools that are seemingly easier, and using them successfully, such as Twitter, are actually putting a lot of time in it as well. Not sure if it's for the same quality though.

Valeria Maltoni

Rebecca:

Thank you for sharing further thoughts. Time and effort are in scarce supply today. There are apparently so many things and activities that vie for our attention.

I used to have just the friends in my circle and the class mates, sport mates (handball, then soccer) and band mates (guitar). While there are more opportunities to go broader and further today, there may also be less time to do any of it in a way that is meaningful to us over the long haul. Or are there?

There is another theory, and I met the lady, Kathy at KeepShedding.com. To the question: Are some relationships transitional? She replies that all relationships in life are transitional.

What would you all say to that?

William Tully

"The truth is, Valeria, what you get out of the social network you participate in – and, yes, blogs are one – is what you put in." - THANK YOU!

All this banter about LinkedIn eroding to nothingness, I don't quite understand. Sure, FaceBook has allowed me to connect with people from my past who are no further ahead now than 15 years ago, but what value is that? As far as I'm concerned, FB is the social side of networking. LI - business.

I've been talking with some people on LI that have huge numbers of contacts and each one keeps saying that only about 1% of their contacts develop into something significant. So sure, if you have 100 contacts and things aren't 'happening' for you, well guess what, that ONE contact may or may not have something on the go right now.. AND if you're waiting around for your phone to ring (as mentioned) then you're going to have a long wait. I personally added +100 contacts to my LI account in the last 24h, and all I can say is that opportunity abounds. These are also people I didn't go to school with, I didn't travel with, they aren't in my extended family, etc.. etc...

I truly have yet to figure out what is SO great about FB... The incessant flood of useless applications that I can now add is irritating, and I really don't care if "Dave is at home drinking beer".. Dave was at home drinking beer years ago... ?!

I firmly believe that FB finally reached it's tipping point which explains the flow towards it. It does have some great SOCIALIZING features to it (as originally developed), however, I really don't see myself seeking out business opportunities on it..

Do I have both accounts? You bet. ;)

Self-promo (for further thoughts):
http://www.tully.ca/blog/are-youwe-connected/2007/06/19/


Vera

Great post, Valeria.

you said... "You know why all these tools seem to be replacing blogging? Because blogging is still work."

You could easily substitute networking/acquaintances vs friendships/relationships in this statement.

Supposedly this twittering trend, combined with all the little online ASPs, is all going to converge and get integrated in Web 3.0 or whatever we're calling it now. Um ...okay.

Personally, I'd prefer to see more development of 'internet 1.1 for everyone'. Following the next hot thing trends is not something that 85% of the population is ever going to do. This does not mean that social networking isn't giving us valuable experience and tools to use for the future, just that its present state doesn't translate into most people's lives.

I'm hoping to find time tomorrow to post on Seth's 'Hiring A Community Manager' topic, and this post points in the direction of my thinking.

Thanks for caring enough to 'work' at it for all our benefit. :)

Vera

Valeria Maltoni

Tully -- alright, I've added you as a friend on Facebook... only because we have been sparring successfully for months ;-) I have been using the LinkedIn account a lot more to drive people to specific contacts and help with career transition interests. Does anyone else think Facebook is TOO much information?

Vera -- thank you for adding your voice to this conversation. You got it, that was the gem in the post. We are looking to flip without doing the work. Relationships are work. Anyone, how do you envision taking the current social networks and making them more actionable? How do we translate what we've got into what we need?

William Tully

I like the distinction of being 'too much information'... Wasn't everyone supposed to be on MySpace at one point? Now everyone is supposed to be on FB? The reality is that not everyone is on either FB or LI (or even MS for that matter), to to be preparing the funeral for LI is a bit premature..

I think both applications are successfully doing their jobs in each area of our lives: personal and professional.

Think of it this way, what would happen in LI became more like FB and began including information from your social life?

I like the fact that if you want to talk about getting together this weekend with a bunch of friends, we can do it on FB. Alternatively, if we need to connect or share trade information on a business opportunity, I'm quite glad there is a place to do that.

For me, I have my FB profile, my LI profile, and my website. Those are current, and everything else is periphery and will be updated when I get to it.

Awesome post Valeria! (as usual!)

Carolyn Manning

Everything can be overdone, yes. Maybe because I've just now started to really jump into the various social media, I'm looking at things from a different perspective. But, in my mind, we're in control and social media is, as Lewis said, a tool. They might not be bringing in clients directly, but I really think, if used wisely, they can be great facilitators.

As for the future of blogging, let's hope it's long and healthy. It might be the ultimate in social media.

(If I went off on a tangent here, can we call it a 'stream of consciousness'?) :)

Valeria Maltoni

Tully -- I don't see myself spending too much time on FB just now. I would rather have more face time with the bloggers and people I have met in the last several months. And yes, I do have an issue with too much information.

Carolyn -- maybe this could be the subject of a post on productivity at your blog: how to use social networking sites right/productively. What do you say? Maybe a series?

Jan

Valeria,

You asked if I think people are afraid of being alone with their own thoughts and if that could be the reason these social networks and media become so popular.

My answer is a clear yes and no :-)

I believe everyone is if not afraid then concerned at least that they are the only ones thinking or feeling like they do. It doesn't take long to realize that you aren't though. Everyone may bring their own voice, but a lot of us think and say essentially the same.

On the other hand do I not believe that being afraid of being alone with ones thoughts is what drives the networks. It may play a role in the media side, but less what the networks are concerned. There you would rather have to be afraid of not being able to hear what you think for utter utterances about this and that and then some.

Something which is more a concern to me is how people talk with each other. Not the obviously bad parts of it, but how everyone seems to forget the residual distance that will always be there because of the differences in time, location and so on.

When I hear how many friends someone has on some network I cannot help wonder if they actually believe in it themselves. I got in trouble on another blog for claiming that sometimes people online exaggerate their expressions, but it does seem to me that this is what happens and that language gets inflated that way.

The world may becoming smaller and smaller, but in reality we are just as far from each other as we were yesterday. Exaggerating our expression of feelings and adding everyone to our network account wont change that. Hence do I still prefer to put my thoughts forward on my blog as that to me seems like the best basis for actually connecting meaningfully with someone despite the distance.

Valeria Maltoni

Jan:

Bravo. This is a really good piece of introspection and a valuable insight in some of the drivers of this phenomenon.

On residual distance, those who know me have heard me quote Rainer Maria Rilke before. He wrote a beautiful piece in Letters on Love:

"But, once the realization is accepted that even between the closest human beings infinite distances continue to exist, a wonderful living side by side can grow up, if they succeed in loving the distance between them which makes it possible for each to see the other whole and against a wide sky!"

And it has been proven that we all have the tendency to exaggerate ;-)

Carolyn Manning

This is a perfect subject for ProductivityGoal, Valeria. I'll be working on it in the next day or two.

Jan said something thought provoking about the number of friends people have on their various networks. I've often wondered not that it might be an exaggeration so much as a status-symbol collection. Of course, that line of thought leads to self-esteem talk and other canned worms. Hmmm. Perhaps thought for other posts/discussions.

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